My guest today is Donnie Maclurcan, founder of the Post Growth Institute and a thinker who played a major role in my own journey. In this episode, Donnie breaks down why money accumulation under capitalism necessarily produces rising debt and inequality, leading to human suffering and ecological breakdown. We also go deep into possibilities for a better future – including the ways not-for-profit business models are quietly succeeding inside capitalism, what a post-capitalist economy could feel like, and what we can do now to participate in a post-growth future.
Thanks to Vista House Marin for providing us with such a lovely space for this shoot.
Follow Donnie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donniemaclurcan/
Dive into the work of the Post Growth Institute: https://postgrowth.org/
Read their writing on Medium: https://medium.com/postgrowth
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz
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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833
Follow the PGI on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/postgrowth/
X: https://x.com/postgrowth
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/postgrowth.org
Michael Mezz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/
The Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/
I originally discovered Donnie and his work thanks to the Denizen community and podcast. Learn more about Denizen here: https://www.becomingdenizen.com/
00:00 Intro: Planting seeds for the future
01:04 Introducing Donnie Maclurcan
02:38 What is post-growth?
06:37 Capitalism's inherent inequality and debt
10:06 The monetary system and debt creation
18:49 The human and ecological impacts of debt
28:08 Why efficiency can’t solve the climate crisis
30:21 Why inequality is inherent to capitalism
33:39 Imagining a post-capitalist future
37:25 Existing examples of post-capitalist businesses
47:37 Why money circulation is key
51:58 How to participate in post-capitalism now
57:18 The importance of indigenous wisdom
1:06:00 The wisdom of marginalized communities
1:08:32 Collapse and post-capitalism
1:18:28 Conclusion
Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta
Guest: Donnie Maclurcan
Editor: Nuria Salgado
Designer: Amea Wadsworth
Sorry I forgot to put on socks before starting the shoot 😅
Thanks for watching episode 006. Lots more on the way.